Episode 20: A Generational Mindset in the Design Industry a conversation with James Hillegas

Randy Wilburn 0:20

Hey folks, and welcome to another episode of encourage build grow. I'm your host, Randy Wilburn. And today, today I've got a special guest and he is somebody that I've actually interviewed before in a previous life on a previous podcast. He became a friend of mine. He was introduced to me by a former colleague, and James Hillegas, who is a prefabrication, manager at OCP contractors, as we've just stayed connected. We were like LinkedIn brothers, and we talked online. We talked on Instagram, I followed his amazing early morning workout routines, but when James heard that I was doing this new podcast was a little different than the former podcast that I did over at the Zweig Group. He wanted to find out more. And I said, you know what the best way for you to find out about this podcast is to come on and and talk with me. And so, James, it's so great to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

James Hillegas 1:12

Good man. Always a pleasure talking to Randy. Always a pleasure.

Randy Wilburn 1:15

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, before we actually started recording you were sharing with me some of your thoughts and feedback on transitioning back from the design space. You working for a structural engineering firm, is that correct?

James Hillegas 1:30

Yeah, I worked in the structural I worked in the bridge department to be specific But

Randy Wilburn 1:33

Okay, right. Bridge department going back over to the construction management side of things and what you've been responsible for and one of the focuses or goals of this particular podcast, in addition to encouraging people about leadership development, helping them become better communicators and ultimately better people is to also talk about some of the challenges and issues that are faced by design professionals and design firm leaders. I think This some of the statistics show that even the most successful design firms, their largest concern is hiring and keeping great talent, period into story. And one of the ways that you hire talent is that you have to be enticing. You have to be the type of organization that people want to work for. And there are a number of factors that play into that how you develop your people, word of mouth, how does that work it out? And the other piece of it is how do you retain talent? How do you keep people in the fold, and keep them coming back for more and it is a never ending battle. But you shared with me that your reasoning for leaving that structural firm that you were at, which is not a bad firm, it's just you were looking for something more and I think it would be great for you just to kind of share and unpack that a little bit with our audience, some of what you felt the constrictions or constraints that maybe you felt on the design side of things that you don't feel on the construction side. And I recognize a lot of people listening to this might say, well, that's just the way it is. And I get that. But there is something to be learned here. And I'd love for you, James, just to share a little bit more about that.

James Hillegas 3:11

Yeah, certainly. So taking a even larger step back at the whole picture, I gave us analogy Actually, this weekend to somebody in the past new athletes are always written about like Babe Ruth, and all the athletes are always written about so teams that take care of their athletes otherwise they would get traded, drafted, picked up in free agency, what have you, who are the past employees, no matter what company was, design firms, consumer goods don't matter. Employees are never really had a public persona. Outside of maybe I don't know, I'm just hypothesizing maybe the big leaders like Andrew Carnegie's of the world or those the Rockefellers those type of characters, but nowadays with social media, any employee can build their own personal brand, regardless of industry and then become an expert in whatever. Shoes makeup doesn't matter. Any person can build their own brand. So employers are having a Actually not having to compete to maintain and keep their talent. And also, there's a lot less curtains, you know, covering up, everything's really exposed honestly, at this point, like, it's just is what it is with the internet. So it's, you know, people can see the other side of the fence and the grass is always greener mentality is probably more pervasive than ever, just because people see. So we're drinking from a firehose whether, I don't care what it is or what information it is, or anything. We're just drinking from a firehose, and there's always the grass is greener concept, going specifically to why I kind of left the design side of world and back to construction as well. I mean, when I say I've always liked construction, just, I've always have, you know, as two year old kid, I would watch construction sites. I didn't really understand what I was looking at, but I just loved them. That's what my parents told me as we would stop at construction sites, and I would watch growing up, so I've always had a thing for it. But as far as the engineering side, it just was, it was very, it's math driven. It's a lot of just functions. And, you know, basically, you have this list of parameters and this is what you have to do because this is what the code says and especially on the transportation side, which is mainly what I did. And the firm I work for, we didn't didn't do too many large scale, like Brooklyn Bridge or Golden Gate Bridge type products, we might get into the very unique engineering situations, they were very the cut and dry, you know, three beams, two columns for like a highway overpass, or the very standard, you know, we have a speed limits this because you know, the road has this site lock line of sight or, you know, whatever the case might be, and it just was very something can be simply automated, to put it bluntly, and I was tired of being a clicker number button, essentially. So construction and offered a different dynamic because problems were much more immediate. There's much more at stake. Usually when a problem occurs, it's because somebody is trying to do something and it is not working for whatever reason, I got the wrong part. The guy before him put something in incorrectly. A bajillion other reasons. It doesn't fit in the door like we thought and the problems immediate because you're spending money every second that you stand there trying to figure out what To do so the sense of urgency and the pressure is a lot higher on the job that I did, which in the grand scheme of construction was small, we in our daily payroll, just estimated this isn't the actual number was about $132,000 a day, you know, if you have a guy similar, like hourly rate of $50 an hour, there was around 300. Guys, you ever take you do the math, you know, eight hours a day, that's your daily spend. So time and mistakes and waiting around for answers and not being able to solve things on her feet quickly adds up. That's kind of the enticing piece of construction that design firms that just simply don't get in the design firm. Really?

Randy Wilburn 6:34

Yeah. You know, as you sharing this, and one of the things that I've noticed, I was looking at your profile online and you have not been one to kind of lay in the grass and just hang out. You're constantly trying to improve yourself. You're constantly trying to get better, which I certainly applaud you for. I mean, you've got your bachelor's in civil you've got your masters in structural engineering. So, I mean, you're certainly no slouch. Maybe you're an overachiever. I don't know. But the bottom line is, I mean, you've, you've experienced a lot in a very short period of time you are how old now? 25. 25, Right. So you're half my age. I'm 50. So from a perspective standpoint, but there are a lot of older individuals in the design industry that would hear you talk and say all well, you know, this young guy doesn't know much, but you actually do know quite a bit, and you've experienced a lot, even in a short period of time, and you've kind of thrown yourself out there. What would your advice be to, especially to your peers just coming out of school? Because you're part of the tail end of the millennium? Well, actually, you're 25. So that makes it Yeah, you're at the tail end of the millennial generation, cuz Generation Z starts in 9798, depending on who you ask. So you're at the tail end of the millennial generation, what would you say to these young kids coming out of school now, that are that will be confronting some of these issues that you've dealt with, and that you've been able to overcome?

James Hillegas 7:57

It's good question. I think the biggest answers on Just one I have to give credit to my parents when they raised me to think and ask questions. I was taught to be analytical, I was taught to question everything. I'm not serious anarchie but I was just, I want to understand why I'm doing something and what the reasons behind it. And I, it's one of the reasons why I've done so well in construction is I really try and take the time to talk to the carpenters and really understand and get them bought in and understand what they're doing. The foreman. And the biggest thing I can say to millennials is you just have to learn how to ask questions. And the internet is more powerful. I think anybody's really comprehended. You know, a lot of skills can be self taught, I mean, the core nuts and bolts of like how to use any design software, how to use how to even write software, I mean, most information now it's ubiquitous. It's on the internet. I mean, MIT publishes or any other classes, from computer science to biology online, I think that's the biggest thing is you can really learn anything you want to learn. And being a self starter, I guess is probably the best way to put it. You know, if you see something, a man it's really hard. built my brand was interactive with a couple guys on you can interact with people like yourself, you know, did young professionals coming out look up to CEOs or presidents or CEOs of companies or people that have large audiences and you can interact with people online? You know, never could do that really before. And if you are a stay consistent with it, you know, and or be find some creative way to get their attention. You know, a lot of doors can open from there, and then you're off to the races.

Randy Wilburn 9:26

Yeah, no, I agree. I think you bring up a good point about that is that you've got to be a self starter. And I think sometimes some of the young people coming out of school may feel like, oh, I've got my architectural degree. I've got my engineering degree. I'm all set. But really, that's when the work really begins. Would you agree to that?

James Hillegas 9:45

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's no homeostasis to the forwards or backwards and you can make that decision yourself. Yeah.

Randy Wilburn 9:52

Good, good. I love that. I haven't used homeostasis on the podcast yet. But now that that'll be a first I've got to certainly include that in There, but

Unknown Speaker 10:00

no, I appreciate that

Randy Wilburn 10:02

your candor and your approach to that. What was it like when you left your former firm with a surprise that you were leaving where they said, obviously, they were probably sad to see you go, I would imagine because again, like I said, You're an overachiever. You're a quick study. You figured things out pretty well. I mean, you had your own business on the side. So that's the other piece of it is that you? Not I wouldn't say a hustler. I mean, you understood that you weren't put into a box just because you had a structural engineering degree, because you were had a Bachelor's in civil engineering that there were other options and things that you could do out there as well. And so you never allow grass to grow into your feet as far as that's concerned.

James Hillegas 10:42

Yeah. Growing up, I mean, I was a kid that if I wasn't busy, my grades are the best during football season growing up. If they were every other semester, quarter, whatever you want to call it. They were worse because I didn't. I had time to screw around and find other things to get into trouble and That's the best way to put it. So I, I knew growing up until I got into I've done my share of, you know, dumb things, and I just found if I don't stay busy, I'm going to get myself in trouble. So that's kind of vessel and then to the whole self starter thing and learning things off the internet and, you know, just going for it. I mean, there's a lot of opportunity with the internet and people can get discovered kind of circling back to everything we've talked about already. You know, there's the barrier to entry to do almost anything now it's pretty much low. In short of starting like a shipping company. I can't think of many things that require a whole lot of investment or capital to get started,

Randy Wilburn 11:31

Right. Yeah, shipping company that might be well, you're gonna have to buy a ship, or maybe one or something like that, but I'm sure there's a way you know, it's funny, it's, I always question whether or not the information is available, and then I go and check. And sure enough, that information is somewhere online for you to do just about anything. And I that's the one thing that I really appreciate. And I'm trying to encourage my kids to be readers more than anything else because I think if you have an appetite for reading and digesting and processing information, there's not much you can't do. And it will certainly help you out the writing piece is important too. And of course, the communication is huge. And I want to talk a little bit about that. Because again, you are a young professional, you have kind of you kind of jumped in with both feet from a communication perspective, you were sharing with me that you are now speaking and how have you developed your ability to communicate effectively? And what are you doing to kind of help yourself reach the widest audience possible with your message?

James Hillegas 12:29

Sure, so I'll contradict your question a little bit. I stay actually very niche. And when I talked about I really speak about like Construction Technology specifically. I don't speak too much on like managing people or managing processes. I'm learning about those processes, but I'm don't speak about them because I don't think I know much about them. I speak specifically on construction technology. So I try and stay like in the lane that I know about. And I did Toastmasters for probably three years. I'm an engineer at heart, I will not be the first person to talk about So when I do speak, it's why just tend to stay in my lane. You know, I'm not trying to like talk about something I have no idea about. And if I don't know the answer, I don't know the answer, like I know and but I spoke in Boston last year and event someone asked about budget, and I was like, sorry, dude, like, I do nothing with financials. Not the person answer. I have no clue. And I that was not verbatim, but that was basically the answer I gave them. I don't know, man. I don't do the budget. So I couldn't tell you. So that's probably the best way to say it.

Randy Wilburn 13:27

Yeah, no, no, that makes sense. And I love the fact that you know how to stay in your lane because there is nothing like that. You know, I think a lot of people miss out on that. And people feel like they have to conquer every area, but you don't. I mean, you can be really good and well versed in your area, and specifically what you were talking about in terms of construction technology. There's a lot to talk about. in that space. Matter of fact you probably couldn't talk enough about it and still do justice to that topic. So I think that's important. Now, did you have any of your other engineering friends in Toastmasters with you when you did, did you convince any of them to come with you to be a part of that?

James Hillegas 14:03

I did not. I am not a big, big motivator. And if you want to follow along, you follow along, but I will not sit there and poke and prod you into doing it. If you ask me what I'm doing, I will tell you, yeah, I'm not the one to poke and prod you into doing something.

Randy Wilburn 14:17

Right. Yeah, I've actually that's one of the things that you know, I've done a number of communication trainings. And I, I do this talk called communicate like Churchill, which follows the life of Winston Churchill, when he became prime minister back in 1940. And all that he did to stave off the Germans invading England. But a lot of what he was able to accomplish was through proper communication and active listening, and all of that, but it was something that he developed over time, he wasn't always a great communicator. He wasn't always a great, great orator, but he practiced and he got better. And I suspect that you're practicing quite a bit. As you shared with me, you've been going out and you've been given opportunities and a chance to speak in a lot of different events. And so each time You go out, you're able to come back and say, Wow, okay, this is, this is something that I have a better handle on. Or, I said these things this time, the next time I go out, I'm going to try it this way and you keep refining yourself and how you deliver your information. Are you really mindful of that?

James Hillegas 15:17

I don't know if I'm super mindful of it. The one thing I'll actually ask you a question, since you give a lot of trainings. You know, I come from the side of I talk like a normal person. I don't typically super dress up when I speak. It's just not what I do. So I mean, how do you feel with people when they sometimes like when you're the president, you read off a teleprompter sounds very obviously prepared, and it doesn't sound very original, especially when you have no uhms or stutters or stopping and thinking, you know, how, what's in your mind? How does that how do you guys how you train that people? Or how do you communicate that with them? When you go through training? Does that make sense?

Randy Wilburn 15:51

Yeah, no, it does. And I think first of all, you know, like Shakespeare said "to thine own self be true." You have a voice. I have a voice. My voice is not supposed to be like yours and yours is supposed to be like mine, I think we should all be very comfortable in how we deliver our information. The one thing that I will say is, A) you need to know your audience. So depending on how you dress, and the message that you share is all predicated on your audience. Now, if I can, you know, I'm not Gary Vaynerchuk, I can't just go and roll up somewhere with a T shirt and jeans anywhere I go. Because I don't have three or four hundred million dollars in the bank and enough street cred for people to just take me as I am, I have to kind of go with the flow of the audience that I'm delivering to. So you know, I think I would follow the mantra of "When in Rome," right, you know, follow that guideline. Now, if you're talking to a bunch of young individuals that are just coming out of school and you want to relate to them, you know, you may not need to get dressed up because they may not interact with you in a light that you'd want them to in the first place. But if you're talking to a bunch of, you know, mid 40 or mid 50 year old design professionals or you know, construction managers that have been around the block, you just need to know who your audience is and then deliver information to them. And I think that's the most important thing. Abraham Lincoln always talked about the importance of, you know, spending two thirds of the time considering who your audience is, and one third of the time actually writing the message that you want to deliver. So it's not so much about the writing as it is about understanding who you're speaking to. And I think that's one of the issues that we face in this country right now. And just in regular discourse, that people don't look at the other person that they're talking to, and take that into consideration when they're sharing information with them. So I think it's just important to know your audience. I think it's also important to understand and use so that you're not stuttering or stammering through any information that you want to share any communication, you want to selectively use silence as an asset in anything and anytime that you speak. It's okay to stop talking and to pause and to take it in. And a lot of times, especially if we're speaking to a group, I don't care whether it's 10 people or whether it's 100 people, nowadays, you're fighting not only with the attention span of those audience members, you're also fighting with the technology in their hands, because we all have a supercomputer in our pocket. So if James gets boring, I'm just pulling out my computer, which is my smartphone. And I'm, you know, I'm checking out Facebook, I'm going to Twitter or what's the latest on CNN, I mean, so the idea is that you want to be able to draw people into what you're talking about, and the message that you're delivering. So you want to use silence to your advantage, because most times, and you can try this out. If you're in a room, and you're speaking to a group of folks and you feel like you might be losing them. Find a point in your message to bring a pause, that pause will draw everybody up, because after a while, people don't hear anything. They're going to stop and look up. They're going to stop looking at their phone and look up and be like, wait, what's going on? And then you keep going from there. So there are a lot of tools and I wish I could unpack that even more, but Just a simple hint of using silence to your advantage, when speaking specifically from a communication standpoint is huge. And it will help you to real people in. And it will also help you to learn how to slow down when delivering your thoughts. Because our thoughts are in our head. It's not like we don't have the ideas and the information to share with people. Too often, we're trying to basically throw up over on people with all the information that we have, and as to Kaito of one sentence after another after another after another. But the reality is, is that if you take time to slow down, your message will become even more coherent. And people will absorb it better than trying to rush to it because that's what most people do. I mean, let's face it, you probably felt like this when you first went up to speak. It's got to be one of the most frightening things that you do. And it takes time even I've been doing this for a long time. But even me what I don't know if I don't call myself A seasoned professional but it's certainly not nothing that I worry about. I could walk out tomorrow and speak to 500 people and not have a whole lot of planning in advance and feel comfortable about doing it. Most people would most people would lose their lunch. And they wouldn't want to do that. But I think it's one of those things where you've got to be comfortable, a and your skin comfortable in your message, which is why getting back to your point of knowing your lane, knowing your information and having command of the subject matter that you have command of, and then kind of going from there and building upon that. But you know, there's just a just a couple of the tips that I would recommend, but certainly slowing down more than anything else to process the ideas that you're trying to relate to people on a one to one basis. And then there are other pieces of body language. There's how you scan or survey or room you don't want to look at one point in a room when you're talking to people how you want to scan the room. I try to if I'm in a room of less than 100 people I try to catch every everybody's eyes through a conversation, meaning that I look at each person, I'm obviously looking at you right now. But we're because we're not physically in a room, I can't look directly at your eyes, I can see you on the screen. But it's a little bit different when I'm in an audience. And I tell people that all the time I said, Look, you know, capture that relationship there. And when you do that, it definitely can help out. So, you know, those are just a couple of couple of tips. I didn't I didn't know you were going to put me on the spot to, to ask me that. But I'm certainly going to applaud you because that's the thing that I do. And it's, it's, I think it's important. I want design professionals I want you know, folks in the construction management field to be superior communicators. I believe that everybody this is one of those muscles that over time, you can become great. It doesn't take much, but you have to practice and the one other piece of advice that I would recommend to any and everyone that will listen to this is that if you are starting to speak more, even if it's just to your group, You're project group, right? That you're part of the team, and maybe you're parts of several different groups, and you have to present something, record that, because then you can go back and listen and find out where you stuttered or where you stammered, or, oh, I said, a 32 times there. So I've got to fix that next time, those little things will help out. And it's one of the things that you talk to any good comedian, any good actor, they rehearse, they practice, they go over this stuff. And especially if you're delivering, which I would imagine covering what you're covering with construction technology, and all you're going to start to find that there are certain things that you tap into that you talk about on a regular basis. So you should have that down pat, and you should be able to deliver it in six different ways to six different audiences. That's important. And so if you're listening to this, and you're a young engineer, young architect, you know, you're not going to always have the opportunity to stand before the leadership of your company to deliver a message, but when you do You should be well prepared for it. And even before then, when you're just interacting with your colleagues or if you're on teams and groups, take time to prepare your messages and consider who you're delivering those messages to, because I think it will strengthen your ability to be heard, first of all, and then secondly, to be effective in how you communicate.

Does that make sense?

James Hillegas 23:21

Makes a ton of sense.

Randy Wilburn 23:22

Yeah. So that's my, that's my two cents. So you turned the tables on me and started interviewing me about that. And I certainly appreciate that because I wouldn't have necessarily brought that up. But I think it's important to hear, especially with people that are in your, in the phase of the career where you are, I mean, you're again, you're 25, you're just starting out, but you've done so much, and the sky is only the limit, I can only imagine that you're probably going to be running some multi-multi million dollar company in the next 10 or 15 years, if not sooner, and I don't think any one of us will be surprised by your upward trajectory, but I think that other people, your peers, and then especially Gen Z that's just coming out of school, they kind of need to hear this because this will be encouraging for them to say, you know what, if James can do it, I can do it. And all you need to do is see somebody else out there doing that I was telling you about the gentleman, Ozzie Nelson, that has had so much success on the M&A side of things in our industry. And he's not even a design professional. He is not an engineer. He's not a classically trained architect. He is a business manager. He is a business savant that has had so much success. And he understands how to put pieces together to make a company grow and to become really great. And you know, it just that's the process and you have to kind of find your lane and work work on it. So I think that's the way that it will go. So now you've worked on a number of different things. And I'm just going to switch gears here for a second just to kind of talk about all the things that you've gotten involved with and I'd be interested to get your thoughts on, you know, working on other projects outside of work that are tangentially related to your field. How did that help you develop and become stronger in what you're doing on a regular basis.

James Hillegas 25:05

So to your point about staying in your lane that we discussed earlier, maybe more of an expert in that specific niche. So I know when we first spoke probably two years ago at this point there, yeah, I was pretty heavily involved in drones. And I was no because I was doing the long story shorter there was it was 2016. It was a Saturday I was doing bridge inspection reports and how it turned like making drawings and my opinion was not very useful. I mean, it was basically a schematic like, I don't really know what value someone was going to get out of it. But I was like, whatever that's what I was supposed to do. And I googled, you know, "do people use drones for bridge inspections," read report by Minnesota Department of Transportation. Cold called the company that did the flying, the FAA still hadn't legalized drones at the time, and within probably a month, I was working for that company remote. They were out of Colorado, inspecting bridges, you know, remotely through photos that they would send and I would write their parts and then they'd be if you'd been engineering submitted and I started, I learned all about drones, you know, what worked, what didn't work, what was going to make this actually really worked in the field, what really wasn't going to work. And so I started building solutions to solve problems that I had some solutions failed, you know, they just didn't work out for various reasons. But I learned more about, you know, the drones and I could speak more directly to them. You know, likewise, with construction technology, some things you know, you can wait for somebody else to solve it, or you can solve it. And it's ultimately your decision, kind of what you want to do, but it just makes you more, there's two things. One, it makes you more of an expert, as we discussed in a second thing is, if you really like it, and you really like doing it after work, you'll become very, very, very efficient at your quote, unquote, real work or full time work, whatever you call it, so you can get it done faster, essentially, to do your other thing. You know, the 40 hours is, I think, an arbitrary number that somebody made up. I think it's been well proven that some people can get a lot done in an hour and some people need 40 hours. Kobe scored like 18 points in like three minutes and some people in a whole game score 14 points. So, just depends. It's an arbitrary number. And you know, it makes you better at your job because you try and find ways to automate things you do is the best way to put it. Because those the two takeaways, you become a better domain expert and you become more efficient and proficient at what you do on your full time job.

Randy Wilburn 27:16

I love that you're absolutely right. And, you know, to quote the great Gary Vaynerchuk He always talks about putting, you know, putting that time in getting your job done so that you can work on the other things that you really want to do and putting that burning that Midnight Oil, so to speak. But you also bring up a really good point that you know, a lot of people there's a lot of waste in the workweek from a time perspective, right? I know you shaking your head like absolutely because I know what time you get up and I know what time you start working out and I that's a little too early for me. I mean, you get up even earlier than what's the Navy SEAL Jocko willick and Jocko Willink gets up at like 4:30 AM in the morning. I think you're up even before that. So I mean you're a baller When it comes to wake up time, and I think I'm probably in my second or third stage of REM sleep, but no, I applaud you, man, because you are consistent with it. And we've seen the results, which I think are great, but I just think that people can, there's so much more than individuals can do and can pull out of themselves if they're willing to put the time in and try new things. And so I think it's really important, you know, for folks to do that. And I really appreciate you sharing that information. So as we kind of bring this to a close and as we share, you know, these ideas that you are currently working on, what would you, what piece of advice or information would you like to share with our audience both thinking of it this way, a piece of advice for the leadership in a design firm that is struggling to keep their best talented people, as well as that young engineer or architect that's coming out of school or just got out of school in May and are still looking for that, quote unquote, perfect job, what advice would you give them? So let's start with the the design firm leader first, or it could be a construction firm leader, and then what advice would you give them? And then what advice would you give one of your peers or somebody that's just coming out of school now in terms of what they should be doing, what pitfalls to avoid?

James Hillegas 29:20

So for the leadership of the AEC, I would think it's two couple things. One is really question that this quote unquote standards like the 40-Hour Workweek, and all the other like standards that are people just accept and take for granted and just say it is the way it is. And we at one time thought the sun revolved around the Earth. So humans have been wrong before and will be wrong again. To that point, I would seriously listen to what employees are asking for if they are saying that certain processes are stressful or more cumbersome than they need to be. I would either ask them to find a solution or create a solution yourself because essentially, as I saw on a prior project, the stress really were on people, the project, you know, try to keep it as vague as possible, but also be specific. And people working seven days a week, some people even worked on Easter Sunday to get things done in time. And the stress really takes a toll on the workers, employees. And it takes a toll outside of the work life. So if you have an employee who's getting stressed at work, comes home and yells at husband, wife, kids, mother, father, I don't really care who it is. And it's a vicious cycle that goes on for years and years of employees gonna leave. And I'm not some like psychologists, I have no idea but that's kind of the story that you can start to play out over time, their health goes to crap, they get overweight, they start having chronic pains and the whole cycle start to, you know, you can see how it starts to really compound on itself. And those are the two biggest things is one, if listen to what your employees are saying I'd like to go back to the whole question of standards is, you know, if maybe employees don't want to get a raise, maybe give them $21 grand a year isn't going to keep them. Maybe they want an extra two weeks vacation or three weeks vacation or whatever. There's just a lot of different ways to slice and dice, that situation of really understanding what that person wants. Because some people aren't motivated by money or getting a higher position, they just want an extra week of vacation and with technology and the way the world is, I mean, remote work has never really been easier or more practical from that standpoint. So that's for the leadership side. For people that are in my position or young like myself, I honestly would say I would just leverage the living crap out of the internet, I would figure out what whoever somebody is, and whether it's architecture, engineering or construction, I would go find people that are respected in the industry, and I would try and find a way to get inside of their circle. And then I would also figure out what your niche is, and I would start learning about it if you don't fully understand it. Or if you do fully understand like how to use Dynamo, which is a plugin for Revit how to start making videos on the internet as much as you can, on LinkedIn so long as they're valuable, obviously, don't just post stuff just to post stuff. But those would be the two things that I would highly suggest from that standpoint. Because don't from their doors know, just start to open up from that standpoint. And, you know, if you have an itch or you know, something, just solving yourself, don't wait on somebody else to do it.

Randy Wilburn 32:18

Yeah, I love that I love that you got to learn by doing. And I think it's really important for people to remember that and that that is, you know, I'm constantly reminded that the minute that I learn something, I gotta teach it. And the more I do that, the more I internalize whatever I'm trying to learn, and it just stays with me. So that is, I mean, it couldn't be you couldn't be more spot on as far as that's concerned. James, I really appreciate you just being transparent and sharing with us. And I gotta say that, personally, just watching the arc of your career, even in the short two years that I've known you, I'm so glad Sanjay introduced us but even in the end, and I think you guys met on Instagram, right? I mean, that's how you met. Yeah, I'm pretty Instagram and and he introduced me to you. And then we started following each other on Instagram and we built a relationship. And, you know, I was telling somebody the other night that, you know, don't discount the organic relationships that can sometimes develop through social media. Now, they aren't all bad. Some are actually good, some are actually edifying. I know, we were even trying to connect when I was in Boston, or I was somewhere where you were going to be and we regards to Boston. So you know, I mean, and so sometimes, that's when you can take the online world and bring it offline. And sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I would encourage anyone that has built up a relationship with somebody, I'm sure that you and I are going to connect at some point and break bread and all that other good stuff. And it might be down the road a bit, who knows, but something's going to happen, where we're going to be able to come together or I've got a layover and in the Dayton/Cleveland area where you live, and we're going to get a chance to hang out but you know, it's just just something there's some serendipity there and you never know who you're going to connect with or meet online that's going to be that's going to be able to help you that will be a supporter of what you're trying to do or that you could be a supporter of what they're trying to do, because certainly it benefits us. That, to me is the great part about social media. I mean, we all would talk about the ill's of social media and the bad parts of it and the fake news and all that other crap but you know, just our exchange in our interactions and how we have remained connected even you know, in the past 24 plus months, I think it's been pretty cool. And honestly all that was because of social media. And you know, we've been able to kind of keep things going and here you are on another podcast with me and another format and we're in you're able to share and I can expose your experiences and your view with my audience. So I really appreciate it and I thank you so much for for coming on. And certainly I wish you nothing but you know, continued success that OCP contractors there and what is that? I see on your head. It says plans for less dot com. Did you? Did you sneak in an ad on my podcast? Or is that something that you're working on? or What is that?

James Hillegas 35:07

Now? So I guess to your point about the whole social media and building brand is one day, I made a video and just like if you guys have questions or want help with construction technology, just reach out to me, Brian, who's the owner of plans for less reach out to me, he's like, I print paper plans. What the hell can I do with technology, thought about it for a while, probably day or two, send him out a couple options. He liked the options and I'm helping them build a solution after hours and a couple things, adding some QR codes and automating a few things for him when he signed a new deal with another company. And the he shared the idea with them and got good feedback. And so he sent me a hat when he made some new hats. So yeah, I'll help him out a little bit.

Randy Wilburn 35:48

That's awesome. I love that man. And you know, and it's, you never know what what will come out of something like that. And I think if you do it, you know, with a pure heart in terms of just helping folks out You know, things will come back to you in spades. I really believe that. And so I'm glad you shared that. Thank you for sharing that. And we'll put a plug for plans for less calm on the show notes. And if anybody wants to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to connect with you? I know you're on Instagram, what's your Instagram? Just my name? James Hillegas. Okay, perfect. And I'll get your email address and everything else. And we'll put that in the show notes. If anybody wants to reach out to James and maybe there's some young folks that are listening to this. They're like, Man, that guy sounds amazing. I want to I want to learn a little bit more about him, you'll be able to do that. And I'm sure at some point in time, I'm going to have you back on the show as we continue to refine the Encourage Build, Grow podcast and continue to develop itself. I appreciate you being one of the pioneers on my show here Encourage Build Grow. And, thank you so much for joining us today.

James Hillegas 36:48

So grateful for the opportunity. Always a pleasure Randy.

Randy Wilburn 36:50

Thank you so much, James. Well, folks, there you have it another episode of encouraged build grow. I'm so glad that James came on today and spend a few minutes with me I hope this particular episode was illuminating for you. If you are a firm or design firm that's struggling with some of the things that we talked about today, please reach out if there's any way that I can help I'll be more than happy to if you are a design professional and you just want to get better from a leadership standpoint, from a communication standpoint, you just want to become a better individual. You know, reach out, we'd love to hear from you. You can always reach me at Randy at encourage build, grow dot com or visit our website at encouragebuildgrow.com, we'd love to chat with you learn a little bit more about what your pain points are currently and how we might be able to help you and if nothing else, if you have ideas about podcast episodes that you'd like to hear from us in the future, share those with us as well. You can find us wherever great podcast can be found, especially Apple podcasts or Spotify Tune cast and soon I think we will be on I Heart Radio. So you know, check us out and eventually I will have an Alexa skill so that you can say, "Hey Alexa, play the latest encourage build grow podcast episode!" and my voice will be right there in your Speaker so I appreciate you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of Encourage Build Grow and we will see you next week. Bye for now.